“PULL BRADFORD!” - Eagles Fans from the first snap to the second half, and then again in the fourth quarter. They're nothing if not consistent.

“PULL BRADFORD!” – Eagles Fans from the first snap to the second half, and then again in the fourth quarter. They’re nothing if not consistent.

Granted, I think that was the longest I’ve ever seen Sam Bradford play, but as I alluded to in yesterday’s round-up, the NFC East is crucial when it comes to developing, producing, and delivering derp. In fact, the most surprising part is how the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are reaching closer and closer to Washington in derp levels. Something like a tide lifts all boats type of strategy perhaps. The first half was interesting, in that I couldn’t really deduce what exactly was going on… was Chip Kelly’s innovations on offense suffering because the Falcons defense was actually trying (something they hadn’t implemented in years), or was Chip Kelly’s innovations just so next level, his goal was to get the punting team to take the field as quickly as possible? One can never know, and I’ll admit, I didn’t know until things went back to semi-normal in the third quarter, where the Eagles scored 14 unanswered points on the tiny back of Darren Sproles, who was located on your fantasy bench. And all of this was against the prototypical Kyle Shanahan offense, which had like 600-yards and just two touchdowns… But of course, in Eagles fashion, with the chance to drive down the field with two minutes to go and win the game, Bradford threw a pass to Jordan Matthews only to see it hit off his hands into the Falcons defense (shown above). I’m pretty sure the NFC East will just be taking a sabbatical this year… And as for the Vikings vs. 49ers game… I don’t really want to talk about it. Let’s just say the entire game reminded me of some kind of avant-garde Burning Man exhibition piece. In a civilized country, both of those teams would have gotten the help they needed…

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Nelson Agholor – 1 REC, 5 YDS. Oh look, a Nelson Agholor cameo!

Sam Bradford – 36/52, 336 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT. Chip might be the most innovative of innovators of innovations, but all the eggs in his basket are named Sam Bradford. And the eggs are scrambled. But hey, they got one game out of him, that’s a start I guess?

Teddy Bridgewater – 23/32, 231 YDS, 1 INT and 3 CAR, 16 YDS. Dude went all Kirk Cousins on us… aren’t we roughly a decade past using the phrase “Norv Turner Offense” in a positive light?

Zack Ertz – 3 REC, 46 YDS. What happened to the Eagles fan that got kicked in the balls? His Zack Ertz. HAHA, sorry…

Carlos Hyde – 26 CAR, 168 YDS, 2 TD and 2 REC, 14 YDS. I think Hyde’s performace would have been more impressive (including his briliant spin move shown above) if I wasn’t so distracted from whatever you call the 49ers wardrobe choice. Granted, I’m happy to see the NFL giving vision-impaired people a shot at uniform design.

Julio Jones – 9 REC, 141 YDS, 2 TD. THIS GUY JULIO, I CALL HIM DDT, BECAUSE HE KILLED THE EAGLES! What, you don’t like my Gruden themed ornithologist jokes? Too bad… for you.

Ryan Mathews – 3 CAR, 4 YDS, 1 TD and 3 REC, 24 YDS. Ryan Mathews: First Round Pick.

DeMarco Murray – 8 CAR, 9 YDS, 1 TD and 4 REC, 11 YDS, 1 TD. Well, to be fair, he had like 100-yards rushing, he just kept running the wrong way. So yeah, he ended the game with 20-total yards and two touchdowns on 12 touches. I guess we’ll call that Chip Kelly efficiency?

Adrian Peterson – 10 CAR, 31 YDS and 3 REC, 21 YDS. Alright… carrying the entire 49ers defense on that run was pretty damn impressive. Like savagely beating a defenseless child impressive…

Darren Sproles – 5 CAR, 50 YDS, 7 REC, 76 YDS. So, who else left Sproles on their bench? Let’s get a tally going. All of us? Okay. All of us… Now, remember, last year in Week 1 against the Jags, he had 11 CAR, 71 YDS, 1 TD and 4 REC, 14 YDS. Then he essentially was kidnapped to never be heard from again. Let’s keep calm here and not overreact.

Mike Wallace – 6 REC, 63 YDS. The most Mike Wallace game ever.

 

Final Thought

To celebrate last night's win, Arthur Blank tied a damsel to a train track.

To celebrate last night’s win, Arthur Blank tied a damsel to a train track.

 

 

  1. Mobin Couldn't Hack It says:
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    so that’s the bird law Charlie specializes in.

  2. guidedbyvoices says:
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    as an Eagles fan I hated having to sift through this entire post….but the final thou g ht makes up for everything.I feel much better now.
    a l so….could you rank these p/u’s….
    10tm ppr ….
    Montcrief
    James Jones
    Harvin
    Chris Johnson
    thnks Jay.

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @guidedbyvoices: I don’t get Blank’s look at all, like, what is he going for? Because it’s definitely 20’s movie villain.

      Jones, Moncrief, Harvin, Johnson.

  3. guidedbyvoices says:
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    and 10tm non ppr….

    Jones
    Montcrief
    Wright
    Stevie Johnspn
    also….is Cruz worth a stash?

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @guidedbyvoices: Jones, Johnson, Moncrief, Wright, and not at the moment.

  4. stlshawgo says:
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    Planning on dropping D. Parker and maybe Duke Johnson for a waiver pickup. Just wasn’t sure who to target.

    Eifert, Reed, and Steve Johnson are my top targets.

    Here’s my team. I was lucky enough to lose my second round pick in week 1…

    QB: Cam Newton, Tannehill
    RB: Latavius Murray, J. Stewart, Duke Johnson, Danny Woodhead, Arian Foster
    WR: Dez Bryant, Antonio Brown, Allen Robinson, DaVante Parker, Markus Wheaton
    TE: Jordan Cameron

    Do you see Reed or Eifert havnig a much better season than Cameron? Was thinking I should target a WR or RB (Chris Johnson or Dion Lewis)…what’s your opinion?

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @stlshawgo: I’d say Reed and Stevie. I think Reed can, still iffy on Eifert. I’d rather have Dion Lewis there.

  5. Jerry says:
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    Hey, Jay! Is it smart to stash Sanchez as my backup qb? Bradford already had an x-Ray. Also, do you like the Packers or KC for season? Thanks!

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Jerry: eh… if QB depth is bare, it’s fine. And going with the Cheifs there.

  6. Jerry says:
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    *Packers or KC D

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Jerry: KC.

  7. Yo says:
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    Kaepernick is my current QB, would you drop him for any of the below QBs?

    Mariota
    Dalton
    Foles
    A smith
    Winston

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Yo: naw, hold for now.

  8. Kendrick Llama says:
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    PPR Waiver pickup rank following please:

    Lockett, Washington, Harvin, Coleman, Austin, Dunbar, Khiry, and Jordan Reed

  9. Marty Funkhouser says:
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    Guy needs an WR1. I need a RB1. His RBs:
    J Hill, Carolos Hyde

    My WRs:
    A. Brown, A. Green, M. Evans, J. Brown, P. Dorsett, M. Wheaton.

    Who would you trade for and what would you try to trade away to get him?

    • shookonespart2 says:
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      @Marty Funkhouser: i think mike evans for j. hill sounds like a nice return for you.. may need to sweeten the pot with evans and another

      winston looked bad and i’d want to fade all players in that offense until furthur notice. with a one week sample size id put that trust in selling evans and getting jeremy hill. carlos hyde looked great but the vikings were laughable all night. lacy and forte ownwers should be rejoicing they get 2 games against those posers.

  10. Blake says:
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    so in my 14 team PPR league it is slim pickings on the wire. I have Bell who is out for another game. My RB’s are J Forsett , R Bush and C Ivory. I have to start 2 RB’s and a flex. So Ivory & forsett at RB. I have to start 2 WR – I have Garcon, A Cooper, M Evans & M Bryant. Evans is hurt and Bryant is out till week 5.

    Who do I drop? and do you suggest any of the following?

    A Hurns
    Khiry Robinson
    J Kearse
    C Shorts
    b coleman

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Blake: I’d hold for now, I like Garcon, and I think you have enough here to work with.

  11. shookonespart2 says:
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    12 team league and need help:

    of the following players, who would you offer up to get 3 of the following: jordan matthews/ arian foster/tevin coleman/greg olsen

    brandon marhsall/ james jones/ frank gore/ alred morris/ pierre garcon/ martellus bennet/ devante freeman/ c. michael

    i was thinking maybe
    1) b. marshall/ d. freeman/ frank gore/ bennet FOR matthews/foster/olsen
    2)jones/ garcon/ gore/ c michael FOR matthews/foster/ coleman

    anything else you can think of? i either want to ship freeman off to the coleman owner or trade for coleman myself…

  12. Bryce Krispie Treats says:
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    Well, I know its a bit early to be this happy about a player, but I drafted Carlos Hyde in both of my leagues because of your recommendations! He really wasnt on my radar, but you guys were pretty confident.

    Im a Vikings fan, and that was a fun game to watch!

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Bryce Krispie Treats: Yup, loved Hyde, hopefully he’ll offset any bad calls I made. And as a Vikings fan, not sure how fun that was… I mean, you’re messing with me, right? Haha.

      • Bryce Krispie Treats says:
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        @Jay:

        Well, Im used to having my fantasy teams be my consolation for failing NFL team. Actually, I can say that for NFL, NBA, and MLB. Twins are surprising this year, but thats not the norm.

        And yes, as a Carlos Hyde owner, that was very fun to watch! haha I needed 12 pts out of him in my ppr league and 20 pts in my standard league. I was rooting for the vikes in the first half, but I knew it was a lost cause after that. Not a whole lot of people can understand the disappointment that MN fans suffer season after season of every professional sports team we have.

          • Cosart Sucks says:
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            @Jay: and they don’t even get a hockey team either.

  13. Wilsonian says:
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    I’m a Defense streamer. Do I stick with Carolina @ Houston this week or go with:

    Bal @ Oak
    Mia @ Jax
    NO v. TB

    • Wilsonian says:
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      @Wilsonian: sorry, Carolina is home v. Houston.

      • Chicken Dinner says:
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        @Wilsonian: Carolina

        They’re a great D without the help of HOU’s QB situation.

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Wilsonian: I’m digging that Bal match-up a little bit right now. But Carolina at home might be safer.

      • Wilsonian says:
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        @Jay: yeah, I worry about Kuechly being out, but Houston might be a mess this week on the road. Carolina put up a solid 21 points for me last week.

        • Jay

          Jay says:
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          @Wilsonian: Yeah, I’m not shaking in my boots from Mallett.

  14. apiatt34 says:
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    Two quarterback league, who would you target first on the waiver wire?

    J. Manziel
    R. Mallett

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @apiatt34: Ew. Um, Manziel, slightly.

  15. Duke says:
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    Am I wasting my time waiting for Victor Cruz to get healthy? I don’t really have any idea when he’s supposed to be back. I’m in a 16 team league so not a lot of names out there, just guys like Tavon Austin, Cole Beasley, Dion Lewis, Karlos Williams, Lance Dunbar.

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Duke: You might be, it’s tough to gauge where he’s at. I’d rather have Lewis, but other than that, I’d hold in such a deep league.

  16. Chicken Dinner says:
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    You read my mind about Arthur Blank.

  17. ryanoger says:
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    .5 PPR keeper league

    QB-Aaron Rodgers
    WRs-Mike Evans, Jordan Matthews, Jarvis Landry, Steve Smith Sr., Markus Wheaton
    RBs-DeMarco Murray, Latavius Murray, Joique Bell, Tre Mason, Shane Vereen
    TEs-Greg Olsen, Owen Daniels

    IR-Jordy

    K-J Tucker
    DEF-New England

    FAs available- James Jones, Percy Harvin, Donte Moncrief, Sproles, Dion Lewis, Ronnie Hillman

    1. I have the #1 waiver would you use it on any of the FAs above?

    2. Also, do you like any of those FAs over my players above?

    2. Do you like Austin Seferian-Jenkins or Reed over Owen Daniels as a back up TE?

    Thanks Jay!

    best,
    Ryan

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @ryanoger: Probably on Jones over Daniels. The rest I’d hold on. I like Reed over Daniels, but it shouldn’t matter. With Olsen, you don’t need another TE.

  18. Scott says:
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    Love the GIF. “WTF is this? A Football? You mean we’re allowed to have these on Defense? WTF do I do now?!?”

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Scott: Thanks!

  19. Scott says:
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    To be fair, AP did have a little help from 85 there.

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Scott: Are you saying I should “switch” my blurb around?

  20. Fungazi says:
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    In 10 M no PPR league, I have Ellington. Who’s the replacement 1-2 waiver priority between these three chumps. This is how I have them now:

    Sproles
    CJ2K

    Last resort:
    Deangelo Williams

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Fungazi: Eh, probably Sproles, but only if you don’t have anything on your bench.

      • Fungazi says:
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        @Jay: The bench is a plethora of more chumps. Have Crowell/ Duke Johnson Jr and Christine Michael stash. Was gonna drop Michael for one of those. What you think?

        • Jay

          Jay says:
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          @Fungazi: Yeah… I agree. Go for it.

          • Fungazi says:
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            @Jay: Thanks my man

  21. Kendrick Llama says:
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    Also, should I be worried about Maclin and Arob as my #2 options in PPR?

  22. Eric says:
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    Hi Jay,

    12-team PPR.

    1. Delanie Walker is my starting TE – looks like there’s a decent chance he sits this Sunday. I already have a waiver claim in for Seferian-Jenkins. In case I don’t get him, which of these other options do you like: Darren Fells (@Chi), Ladarius Green (@Cin), Ebron (@Min).

    2. Assuming Walker is good to go, would you rather start him (@Cle) or any of the above options?

    Thanks!

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Eric: Green, and yeah, if he’s 100%, I’d want him more than the others right now.

  23. Adam says:
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    Please rank t Williams,Harvin,Stevie Johnson,Brandon Coleman
    Standard league
    I have Dez
    Thx

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Adam: Williams, Johnson, Coleman, Harvin.

      You need to own Williams.

  24. Nick says:
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    wow, lucked out 92-90! Have to say the real luck was facing the worst of the 9 other teams this week as I had the 2nd lowest output.

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Nick: Whew, congrats!

  25. Rice says:
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    10 team 0.5 ppr

    Need to drop one: Royal, Hurns, or Joique Bell?

    WR’s: Julio, AJ Green, D. Adams, Agholor

    RB’s: Leveon, Gore, Ivory, T. Coleman, D. Williams

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Rice: Hurns.

  26. Bill says:
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    Hey Jay,

    Nice write up, Blank is a displaced boss from the Gambino crime family, placed there by the mob to control gambling in Atlanta. Just a thought.

    10 team PPR, drop Duke Johnson to grab Sproles for the bye weeks? I have Miller, Forsett and Abdullah.

    Thanks

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      Yeah, I can believe that. I’m fine with that move, sure.

    • Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadoo says:
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      @Bill: that makes perfect sense, see!

  27. Birds of War says:
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    Howdy Jay!

    Getting ready for week 2, it’s .5 ppr who would add on this week waiver rush? Since I lost & scored fewest I get top priority

    My team:

    QB: tannehill

    RB1: Jeremy hill
    RB2: Lamar miller

    WR1: demaryius Thomas
    WR2: Brandin cooks
    WR3: Andre Johnson

    TE: Richard Rodgers

    Flex: Doug Martin

    D: Vikings

    Kicker; Matt bryant

    Bench: gore, john brown , Terrence Williams, Tyler Lockett, Antonio gates as a stash, Cameron Artis Payne, Matt jones, anquan boldin & Christine Michael , but planning on dropping c-mike.

    Available QB’s only 3 I’d consider Palmer & Palmer, Andy Dalton & Winston. Flacco is there too but 3 points week 1 yikes.

    RB’s: Chris Johnson, Bilal Powell, Lance Dunbar, Jonathan grimes, Damien Williams (cuff for miller)

    WR’s: Cole Beasley, Nate Washington, Doug Baldwin , Allen hurns, Andre Roberts, ted ginn jr, Philip Dorsett

    TE’s: Ladarius green, Coby fleener, Crockett Gilmore, Vernon Davis, Charles Clay,

    D/st I stream, thinking either Colts (vs jets), Ravens (@OAK), Browns (vs Titans), Titans (@cleveland)

    Thanks man

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Birds of War: I honestly like Green and Dorsett the best out of that group, and I’d replace, like you said, Michael and probably Richard Rodgers. I’d want the Colts out of that group.

      • Birds of War says:
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        @Jay:

        Thanks man! You wouldn’t add Palmer to back up tannehill?

  28. guidedbyvoices says:
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    10tm ppr keeper.before wk 1 I dealt Jeffery for CJ Anderson.I already had ODB and C Johnson plus Graham at TE.was that dumb?….will CJ look more like a legit rb1 ros?

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @guidedbyvoices: That was not dumb at all, I would make that trade 10 times out of 10.

    • Mordacious Levator says:
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      @guidedbyvoices: he did all last year.

  29. Clos says:
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    Why is everyone hating on the black uni’s for? Lol .. Idk if it’s because I’m a niners fan but the all black with the gold helmets looks dope.. Anyways whuddup Jay so after week 1 I think I should definitely start abdullah just don’t know who to sit for him and I’ve got dez down so I dropped colston for Williams..
    QB Palmer
    RB Alfred Morris
    RB Latavius Murray
    WR Dez
    WR Antonio Brown
    TE Greg Olsen
    W/R Melvin Gordon

    So that’s how my starting lineup looks like after week 1. I’ve got Bridgewater, Abdullah, Arian Foster, Williams and Wallace on the bench..
    You think I should swap dez for Williams and abdullah for Murray or Gordon? I’m leaning Murray because they’re playing Baltimore.. Gordon has it easier with the Bengals I think.. What are you saying?

    • Clos says:
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      @Clos: sorry standard league and scoring

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Clos: They looked like something I might make on Madden when I’m drunk. Let’s just say I prefer their normal colors. I still like Williams there… I’d say stick with your studs this upcoming week.

      • Clos says:
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        @Jay: lol alright man so keep abdullah on the bench?

        • Jay

          Jay says:
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          @Clos: I think Abudullah over Gordon isn’t crazy, but wait until my Thursday rankings.

      • Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadoo says:
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        @Jay: first thing i said when i saw them is they are the kind a kid makes on a video game, sounds bout right.

  30. Barker says:
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    10 team 1/2 ppr

    I give gore graham dez i get lynch cooks

    My rb murray gore blount crowell coleman
    My wr marshall robinson garcon agholor dez
    My te olsen graham

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Barker: I think it’s fair.

  31. Mak says:
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    12 team- 2 QB. Standard scoring.
    Here’s my team:
    QB: Brady, tannehill
    WR: Brandon Coleman, desean Jackson, Sammy Watkins, green-Beckham, TY Hilton, Charles Johnson
    RB: Hyde, cj Anderson, Sankey, gio Bernard
    TE: Jordan Cameron
    K: catanzaro
    D: rams

    Would you hold onto desean Jackson for now? And do I need to drop any of my players for these waiver guys: moncrief, Chris Johnson, Benny Cunningham, dion Lewis, David Johnson?
    Thanks

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Mak: Hold for now.

  32. booya says:
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    Would you trade Dez for Abdullah at this point?

    What about Dez & Sankey for Hyde?

    Thanks

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @booya: Yeah, if you really need that RB, sure.

  33. Wilsonian says:
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    Would you dump Boldin for a backup TE to cover for Olsen?

    Here’s my WR corp:

    Julio
    Evans
    Cooks
    A.Robinson
    Garcon
    K.Wright
    A.Boldin

    We play 3 and have a flex that can be W/R and one that is Q/W/R/T.

    I can get either ASJ, Reed, or Green.

    0.5 PPR – 3 point bonus at 85 yards receiving/100 yards rushing – 6 point bonus at 135 yards rushing/150 yards receiving

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Wilsonian: I guess you could, but I’m fine with just Olsen.

  34. Moscowitz says:
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    8 team, 100 FAAB

    QB: Peyton, Stafford
    RB: Peterson, Forte, Hyde, Stewart, Freeman, Joique, Hillman, McFadden
    WR: Cobb, Tate, Allen, Steve Smith, Garcon
    TE: Witten, Donnell

    I would like to spend
    16$ on Terrance W, dropping Donnell
    8$ on Eifert dropping McFadden
    4$ on Rivers dropping Stafford

    What do you think?

    Thanks

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Moscowitz: I think you lose on Williams and win Eifert and Rivers.

  35. JHawk says:
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    @Jay
    12team PPR Start 2RB 3Wr & Flex
    QB-Rivers & Palmer
    WR-OBJ, Edelman, K.Allen, Wallace, Quick, Dorsett
    RB-Forte, Gore, L. Murray, Sankey, J. Bell
    TE-Eifert

    Guy with Dez in my league is willing to deal. With the 8-12 week news hitting today, I think Allen is too much to give up. Do you still think Dez is the better end of the deal or have your thoughts changed?

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @JHawk: My thoughts have changed honestly. It’s looking more like 8-12 weeks.

      • JHawk says:
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        @Fungazi: @Jay:
        Thanks,
        That’s what I’m thinking. I’m going to use my master negotiating skills to try Wallace and Bell, since outside D. Thomas he’s dead @ receiver.

  36. Fizz says:
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    Would you trade cobb to receive either hyde or forsett?

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Fizz: Do you need a RB? Who would these RB’s be replacing? Who takes Cobb’s place? In a vacuum, I’d probably hold in a PPR. What format?

      • Fizz says:
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        Its a standard 12 team league. I dont need a rb just trying to benefit from trading somehow since another team has a crazy good squad. For rb’s i have forte, morris, coleman, and sproles. Wr’s i have Cobb, J. Brown, M. Wallace, Hurns, A. Robinson.

        My offer for hyde got declined and forsett is still out there.

        Thanks Jay.

        • Jay

          Jay says:
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          @Fizz: Yeah, I think Hyde is too hot right now. I’m okay witht the forsett trade, but I think you RB’s are fine with Morris and Forte.

  37. Fungazi says:
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    I stream the D spot. Got a nice amount from SF last night, do I roll with them again vs Pit or take one of:

    Balt @ Oak
    Tenn @ Clev?

    • A Wesley Snipes Life says:
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      @Fungazi: BAL

    • Jay

      Jay says:
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      @Fungazi: With Snipes here, I like Balt there.

  38. Dom B says:
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    Is there anyone Droppable. Shold I add Terrance Williams or Stevie Johnson for anyone. Also if trade goes through which rb to replace blount off wire David Johnson, Duke Johnson, CJ2K, Darren Sproles, Dion Lewis, Benny Cunningham

    My roster (Andrew Luck trade pending review if accepted subtract Eli and Blount)

    QB Tony Romo
    RB Leveon Bell
    RB Jonathan Stewart
    WR Julio Jones
    WR AJ Green
    TE Jason Witten
    Flex Latavius Murray
    K STEVE HAUSCHKA
    DEF Bengals
    BENCH
    QB ELI MANNING
    WR KEENAN ALLEN
    RB GIO BERNARD
    WR JOHN BROWN
    WR STEVE SMITH

    • JHawk says:
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      @Dom B:
      Out of curiosity, how many teams & what format?

      • Dom B says:
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        @JHawk: 10 man standard league money league with random people

        • JHawk says:
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          @Dom B:
          Obviously, listen to Jay, he’s the master, but you have solid depth @ WR. Picking up the guys you’re talking about may keep them from scoring for somebody else, but they aren’t cracking your lineup. The twin dongs in Arizona are a short term solution as Ellington will be back and toting the rock the majority in AZ in a week or two. I’d hold, hope Allen goes off again, & try to package him with Murray for a mid to upper RB1.

        • Jay

          Jay says:
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          @Dom B: JHawk said everything I would have here Dom.

  39. BambooLounge says:
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    Let’s not forget the Chip Kelly non-challenge on the Matthews TD. I lost by 5.xx, would’ve won with the 6.

    • goodfold2 says:
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      @BambooLounge: i was playing against both matthews in one league so it was really good for about 7 seconds or so.